Tiny Experiments, BIG Breakthroughs with Guest Expert Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Ep: 273

Is the fear of uncertainty keeping you stuck?

Feeling drained or unfulfilled isn’t a personal weakness. It’s a sign that you’re operating on outdated scripts, following paths that no longer serve you. But breaking free doesn’t require a massive leap… just a tiny experiment.

Today on The Bridge to Fulfillment®, Blake welcomes Anne-Laure Le Cunff. She is a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer and is the founder of Ness Labs.  She explores evidence-based methods for people to make the most of their minds, navigate uncertainty, and practice lifelong learning. Her work has been featured in peer-reviewed academic journals and mainstream publications such as WIRED, Forbes, Rolling Stone, Fortune, Entrepreneur, and more.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to embrace uncertainty through times of transition. You’ll hear how “tiny experiments” can help you break free from cognitive scripts and build self-confidence. You’ll also learn how to schedule in time for curiosity and exploration so that you can start making small, incremental changes that will eventually help you achieve true personal and professional fulfillment.

 

What You’ll Learn:

  • Anne-Laure’s personal journey through experimentation (3:12)
  • Why we should treat struggles and burnout as signals for change (13:23)
  • Embracing uncertainty rather than looking for answers (20:06)
  • “Tiny experiments” to progressively build self-confidence (28:10)
  • Focusing on learning rather than success or failure (40:10)

 

Favorite Quotes:

  1. “It’s really about starting small and just trying to do something different, maybe something that goes against what advice you would get from friends or from your employer, and seeing that the world doesn’t end.” –Anne-Laure Le Cunff
  2. “It’s really about progressively building that self-confidence through cycles of experimentation, instead of trying to make the big change straight away.”  –Anne-Laure Le Cunff
  3. “When I began to realize that [experimentation] was the only way to get what it is that I wanted, it really helped me learn to embrace that uncertainty and to recognize that uncertainty was actually the gift.” –Blake Schofield
  4. “As long as you learn something new, that’s success.” –Anne-Laure Le Cunff
  5. “The things that we’re experiencing are actually signs and symptoms that our life is in misalignment. They are warning signs. But because we’re surrounded by other people experiencing the same thing, our brain will pattern match and say, nothing’s wrong with me.” –Blake Schofield

Additional Resources: 

Connect with Anne-Laure Le Cunff:
https://nesslabs.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/alecunff/
https://x.com/neuranne
https://www.youtube.com/@neuranne/featured
https://nesslabs.com/book

For programs and opportunities to work with Blake, go to www.BlakeSchofield.com

Transcript

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 0:04
I call them tiny experiments and not big experiments because I think building confidence in yourself and in your choices comes from proving to yourself that you can make those decisions and that good things will happen. It’s really about starting small and just trying to do something different—maybe something that goes against the advice you would get from friends or from your employer—and seeing that the world doesn’t end. You’ve done something that goes against the script. You’ve done something different, something that felt uncomfortable. It’s about progressively building that self-confidence through cycles of experimentation instead of trying to make a big change straight away.

Blake Schofield 0:54
Hi, I’m Blake Schofield, founder and CEO of The Bridge to Fulfillment, mom to three, USA Today top 10 professional coach, and former corporate executive who got tired of sacrificing my life for a comfortable paycheck. My mission is to expand perspectives to achieve greater impact at home and work without sacrifice. This is The Bridge to Fulfillment.

On this week’s episode, I am interviewing Anne-Laure Le Cunff. She’s a neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. A former Google executive, she went back to university to earn a PhD in Psychology and Neuroscience from King’s College in London. As the founder of Nest Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, she writes about evidence-based ways for people to make the most of their minds, navigate uncertainty, and practice lifelong learning. Her work has been featured in peer-reviewed academic journals and mainstream publications such as Wired, Forbes, Rolling Stone, Fortune, Entrepreneur, and more.

I really loved my time on this podcast, talking with her about research-backed knowledge on how our brain works and how you can train your brain to create a more fulfilling life with really small, tiny experiments. I’m excited to share this conversation with you, and I hope you leave it with the ability to take a small, tiny experimental action in your life to continue growing and building a more fulfilling career and life. Anne-Laure, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast today. Your energy is infectious, and I’m excited to see what comes of our conversation today. Thank you for taking some time out of your busy week to spend with me and my audience.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 2:53
Thanks so much for having me, Blake. I’m so excited about this conversation.

Blake Schofield 2:57
You have a fascinating background, and I’m really interested in having you share a little bit with the audience about your personal journey and how you ended up really finding your path and the work that you’re passionate about.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 3:12
I think about my life, my work, and my career in two different phases—almost like two different parts of a book. It’s kind of similar to you, actually, which is why I was so excited to connect with you and have this conversation. I started my career in a big corporation, working at Google. To get there, I had a very focused, linear approach. I tried to do very well in school, went through a very intense interview process, and once I was there, I did everything I could to be successful based on the traditional definition of success. I tried to get promoted, work on the biggest projects, and gain internal recognition.

And yet, something felt wrong. I felt both burned out and a bit bored—I didn’t have excitement when I woke up in the morning. It felt mechanical. So I left my job at Google, thinking I would go and do my own thing. But what I didn’t realize at the time was that I kept applying the same scripts I had been taught. For anyone listening who’s familiar with Silicon Valley’s definitions of success, after working at a big tech company, you’re “supposed” to start a startup. So I did that. I started a startup. And again, it wasn’t it.

It took my startup failing for me to finally find myself in a place where I had no idea what to do next. That forced me to ask myself: What do I actually want to do? If I forget about traditional definitions of success, about what people expect from me, about pleasing my parents and friends—what is it that I really want? That question started the second phase of my life, which I’m still in. I went back to school, studied neuroscience, finished a PhD out of sheer curiosity to understand how the brain works, started a newsletter, wrote online, finished writing a book, and now I’m thinking about my next project. It’s a life of playful experimentation. It’s not linear at all. I’m a little bit lost, but I’m embracing it.

Blake Schofield 5:41
I love that. I find that so many of us who end up going the “non-traditional” route started from backgrounds or families where we were given a very clear definition of success. I wonder if your case is similar to mine. I grew up with two parents who worked in corporate America. From a very young age, I was taught: don’t do this, don’t do that, people won’t hire you if you have piercings, people will judge you if you dye your hair. A lot of my childhood was about learning what my parents believed was necessary for success.

And I actually started to realize in college that something felt off. I originally planned to get my PhD in Marriage and Family Psychology to become a therapist, but in my junior year, I realized some things about that didn’t feel right. I started having a passion for motivational speaking, but back then, that field was so new, and there was no clear path. I had been taught a linear way of success, so I thought, “My parents will kill me if I graduate college and can’t support myself.” So I went the traditional route, spending 18 years in corporate America, going through cycles of enjoying new jobs and then feeling bored and burnt out—just as you described.

I’m interested in your perspective. Especially knowing that we share a passion for understanding how the brain works, what did you learn about yourself and why you initially followed the path you did? What advice would you give to someone who doesn’t even know what’s subconsciously driving them?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 7:51
I was nodding so much when you were sharing your story because it really resonates. And yes, absolutely, you’re right—you guessed correctly! Very similar to you, I come from a background where, in my case, it’s an immigrant background. But the result is the same—my parents really encouraged me to always make the safest choice. That was what I was supposed to do.

I wanted to study literature, and they told me, “Don’t do that. Nobody’s going to hire you. There are no jobs.” So I studied business and science instead, with a career that was really designed to be successful—professionally designed to maximize job prospects. And all of my choices, from high school until Google, were based on this: safety and job prospects.

I think a lot of people, for a variety of reasons, go through this because, for our parents, it came from a really good place. It came from a place of protection, love, and wanting to make sure that their child would be safe—that we wouldn’t have to worry, that we’d have a roof over our heads and food on the table. Even though this came from a positive place, many of us have grappled with this tension. We know what the “safe” thing to do is, but we feel like it’s almost too safe—that in the process, we’ve lost some of our curiosity, excitement, and that state of unknowing that can actually be very generative.

You mentioned that you’re also interested in how the brain works. For me, it was fascinating to discover that psychological phenomena explain why we follow these scripts. That’s the exact word psychologists use—they call them “cognitive scripts.” These scripts can be very helpful because they tell you how to behave in certain situations. If you think about it, it’s a good thing that every time you find yourself in front of a door, you don’t have to ask, “How does this work? How am I supposed to open this door?” A lot of our responses are automated, which allows us to go through life without overthinking everything.

But what we don’t realize is that many of the bigger life decisions—about work, relationships, and creative projects—are also unconsciously following those cognitive scripts. Just being aware of the existence of those scripts was a big “aha” moment for me. I started paying more attention to why I was making certain choices and asking myself, “Is this the choice I actually want to make, or am I following a script?”

Blake Schofield 10:38
That’s so powerful! You know, I’ve invested a lot of money and time learning over these last seven years in a non-traditional way—both through life experience, testing principles on myself and hundreds of clients, and also through formal learning. It fascinates me how many people still don’t realize that our belief systems are formed by the time we’re seven years old.

The majority of our decision-making is subconscious—just like these scripts you mentioned—but they can all be changed. We have neuroplasticity! Our brains can learn new things, we can change, and we can do things differently. Recently, I’ve been reading Mel Robbins’ latest book, which is really fun. She talks about how difficult it is for people to change, and it’s interesting. I’ve spent seven years learning how to shift from seeing the world in black and white—right or wrong—to massively transforming my belief systems. I’d say 90% of what I believed 10 years ago has changed.

I’ve learned how to master change, understand my belief systems, challenge them, remove the ones that don’t serve me, and replace them with beliefs that are far more effective. I’m sure this is all stuff you’ve studied, and I’m excited to dive into it more. This research has been around for a long time, but it doesn’t always reach the public. So many people are operating from burnout or unhappiness.

When I was in corporate America, I started my career in HR, and I knew something wasn’t right with that either. I kept looking and thinking, “This isn’t it.” What always stood out to me was how many people were miserable and unhappy in their careers, just going through the motions, believing that was as good as it was going to get.

Now, I personally believe that when we reach those moments where something feels wrong—where we keep having chronic sicknesses or burnout—it’s actually an opportunity to step into the growth of who we truly are. It’s a chance to see, “What are the scripts we grew up with? What are the things we believe?” and begin to realign with our true selves.

I’m curious—if this is a new concept for someone or they don’t really understand what subconscious beliefs are driving them, how did you begin to recognize that in yourself? And what advice would you give to someone just starting this journey? Because I think most people really are unaware of what’s shaping their decisions. I certainly was eight years ago.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 13:23
I love how you talked about how people suffer, go through the motions, and experience burnout. The problem for many is that they don’t treat these as signals. Instead, they see them as problems to fix—usually with a lot of self-judgment and shame.

If we’re struggling at work, if it’s hard to get up in the morning, if we’re exhausted and can’t take care of our kids because we have no mental or physical energy left, we assume something must be wrong with us. We blame ourselves. And usually, we try to push through with willpower, thinking, “Surely, everyone else around me is managing, and I’m not, so something’s wrong with me.”

First, a lot of people actually aren’t managing. Everybody’s struggling—we just don’t talk about it. Second, those who are managing have often found a configuration in their life that works for them—whether it’s support systems, routines, or self-care habits. And that rarely happens by chance—it comes from questioning assumptions, desires, and approaches.

So my advice? First, stop blaming yourself. Instead, consider your struggle a signal from your brain saying, “Hey, we’re not happy with this situation—can we do something about it?” Replace the illusion of control with curiosity. Observe and ask questions: “How am I feeling? What could be different? What could I experiment with?” That’s what allows you to break free from scripts and start writing your own story.

Blake Schofield 15:28
Amen! Everything you said—I wish everyone listening would rewind and listen to that again. I’ve thought a lot about this idea that what we experience—burnout, anxiety, exhaustion—are actually signs and symptoms that our life is out of alignment. They’re warning signs! But because we see everyone else experiencing the same things, our brain normalizes it.

We seek advice from close friends or family, but they often have the same scripts and limiting beliefs we do. So instead of getting real solutions, we hear things like, “Maybe you need a hobby,” or “Maybe you just shouldn’t care about work as much.” When I look back, that’s why I spent over a decade trying to solve this problem—I was asking the wrong people, reinforcing the belief that “this is just how life is.” It wasn’t until I expanded my circle and met people who saw the world differently that I realized I was just repeating these same patterns.

So I’m really curious—how do we start breaking out of these cycles? How do we start valuing our insights above others’ criticism?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 18:33
Yeah. And also, an issue that is related to this is that we think we can go to other people for a ready-made answer that we can then apply. I think that is a fundamental mistake a lot of us make. It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. We hate uncertainty. We want an answer, and we want it fast. If you think about when we used to live in the jungle, the more information you had about who was around, who was lurking in the bushes, who wanted to eat you, and any other information, the faster you could get answers, the higher your chances of survival.

Because of that, whenever we’re struggling, we tend to run to whoever is closest to us who might have an answer. And even though, deep down, we know that nobody has a perfect answer we can just copy-paste—we know it’s going to require a little bit of work, and we know that something that worked for a friend might not work for us because we’re all unique—we still try to bypass all of this just to get that answer as quickly as possible. We do it just to feel like this uncertainty, this fear of not knowing, is gone.

I think reimagining our relationship to uncertainty, embracing it as something we can learn from rather than something to get rid of as quickly as possible, is another part of the puzzle, 100%.

Blake Schofield 20:06
I think that is one of the biggest challenges we have as a society. One of my favorite quotes is from Virginia Satir: Most people prefer the certainty of misery to the misery of uncertainty. That’s amazing. This belief system—that what we know to be true is safer than what we don’t—is deeply ingrained. It was only through my journey of small experiments, which I love (this is exactly how you help people get there), that I began to realize that if what I was doing wasn’t working, and there was no way it would get me what I wanted, that was actually the greatest risk.

The longer you continue to do things that your body, mind, heart, and soul are screaming are not right for you, it’s like carrying a 50-pound backpack. Then it becomes 100 pounds. Then it becomes 500 pounds. It is unsustainable. That was actually the risk. Learning how to take small steps, small experiments, small motions forward to explore what was possible—when I realized that was the only way to get what I wanted and that often there were far better outcomes than I ever would have imagined—it really helped me embrace uncertainty. I recognized that uncertainty was actually a gift.

It was also realizing that my brain is just naturally wired to repeat things because it thinks that’s safe. But that isn’t actually safe when you aren’t doing things aligned with who you are, your health, the life you want to lead, etc.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 21:38
You just touched on something so important, which is that if you’re looking for a specific answer, you’re only going to explore a very limited set of possible outcomes. Because you’re limited by your imagination—you don’t know what you don’t know.

By opening up the range of questions you’re asking, by having more discussions with different kinds of people, by exploring different experiments outside of your comfort zone, trying new things, giving yourself the opportunity to make mistakes and learn in the process, you’re more likely to get to a place that you could not have imagined in the first place. That’s the best outcome you can hope for—to be able to look back and say, Wow, I had no idea I could get here. I had no idea this was a possibility at all. That’s how you want to feel when you look back.

Blake Schofield 22:34
Yeah, it’s amazing. I think often, as high achievers, we’re trying to figure out how to rig it so we can achieve our goals. But the way we’ve been taught to do that actually stops us from achieving those goals. It reduces the number of options we actually have to win and very often limits us because our view of what’s possible for us is often much lower than what truly is.

This idea of learning how to cultivate curiosity and take small experiments is really beautiful. My experience is that young children know exactly who they are. They have curiosity. They go through the world and do what feels good to them. Then, as they grow up, well-meaning adults who don’t understand human development unintentionally impose belief systems and conditioning that stop us from trusting ourselves and being curious.

I’m interested in your perspective on that—how we know who we are as kids, then we start trusting other people. How can we get back to trusting ourselves?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 23:44
It’s very interesting how, again, this all comes from a good place. Adults are often just trying to help us be successful, be safe, and be efficient. They think, Why waste so much time exploring different things when we know what works? Let’s focus on that.

That’s what we’re encouraged to do in our studies and in the way we manage our lives. So how do we get back to this place of curiosity, where we don’t necessarily know what we like, but we trust that we will be able to recognize it when we see it?

This is how kids learn. They try a lot of things, but they also quit a lot of things very quickly. They’ll try something and say, I don’t like this. I’m going to try that other thing. But when they find something they like, it becomes the most important thing in the world to them. They can lose themselves in that project and forget about everything else.

As adults, it’s really about recreating that space for exploration. Unfortunately, we’re quite busy. We have responsibilities. We can’t necessarily spend the entire day staring at the ceiling and daydreaming, waiting for inspiration to hit. It may sound strange, but stay with me—this is something I’ve been recommending to the people I work with, and they have found it really helpful: you can actually schedule time for curiosity.

Block time in your calendar—maybe 30 minutes, an hour, or two hours, depending on your schedule. Put it in your calendar as if it were a work meeting. Tell everyone, Don’t disturb me. I’m doing research. You can call it whatever you want so people leave you alone. Then, use that time to fall into a Wikipedia rabbit hole, open a book you’ve been meaning to read, listen to a podcast you saved weeks ago, or jot down notes. If you’ve been thinking about writing a newsletter but haven’t had time, sit down and write something short.

What’s really important is that you don’t decide in advance what you’re going to do with that time. It’s not about scheduling work or creating homework. It’s about asking yourself, Okay, curiosity hour. What am I feeling curious about right now? And it doesn’t have to be productive. There’s no need for an output. It’s simply about following and honoring your curiosity for that amount of time. Then, you can go back to your responsibilities.

Blake Schofield 26:25
I love that so much. I have an old mentor, Randy Massingale, who would talk about creating what he calls “righteous hang days.” It was a day where he’d have a set amount of money and no plan in advance. And it was just like what you’re saying—he’d wake up and, whatever he felt like doing that day, he would go do. He would trust his intuition and follow what brought him joy. He’d stay out until he had spent all his money, and then he would go back home. Isn’t that amazing?

So, I started doing that a couple of years ago, and I found it brought so much joy, interest, and color to my life because it brings you back to being present in the moment. It reminds you that life is really meant to be enjoyed. I think, as a high achiever who spent so many years focused on accomplishing and climbing the ladder, I see so many of us get caught in the belief that we need to be productive all the time. But it’s actually that belief system that’s creating burnout. It’s what stops us from finding more creative ways to be efficient or truly understanding what we are uniquely passionate and gifted at.

So, I love your idea of helping people block 30 minutes, an hour, or two hours—whatever works—to get back to that childlike state. In my experience, the more you stay in that state, the more you open up pathways to see the world differently.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 27:58
Exactly. It’s almost like a muscle—you just need to use it. The more you use it, the stronger it becomes, and the more you actually enjoy using it.

Blake Schofield 28:10
I love that. The idea of your brain being a muscle is really powerful. I have three kiddos, and my oldest, several years ago, showed a strong entrepreneurial mindset. I enrolled him in a program that taught entrepreneurial principles and how to trust himself. He described the program as a “workout for the mind,” which I found really powerful.

In today’s world, we’ve never faced more uncertainty. With the level of technological, societal, and industrial change we are heading into, we need to learn how to be adaptable, trust ourselves, understand our skills, and apply them in new ways. We need to be curious and solve problems differently.

So much of this journey starts with understanding that your brain is a muscle—you can train it. You can also learn to recognize the lies your brain tells you that aren’t always true. This allows you to cultivate trust, curiosity, and resilience. Many people don’t know this yet, but it’s incredibly powerful.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 29:37
It’s such a useful metaphor for embracing self-agency. As you mentioned earlier, neuroplasticity shows us that we have the ability to change our behaviors, thoughts, and emotional responses. We can listen to the signals our emotions provide and use that data to make better decisions.

Instead of clinging to rigid systems, we need to recognize that the way we do things now might become outdated tomorrow. The best skill we can develop is learning how to learn.

Blake Schofield 30:48
Depending on your generation, this perspective may come more naturally or feel completely foreign. Younger generations have embraced this more through technology, mental health discussions, and brain science, whereas older generations were taught to “suck it up.”

I was raised in a very black-and-white, linear way—taught that systems work a certain way and that’s the only way. But now, I operate in the complete opposite manner. When I left corporate America, I wanted to do meaningful work while creating a more balanced life.

At the time, I didn’t realize I was actually learning to honor who I am. I was removing barriers and understanding my experiences in a way that allowed me to break free from burnout cycles. High achievers often believe their success comes from rigidity and hard work, but those beliefs keep us trapped.

We fear that if we stop doing things the way we always have, everything will fall apart—our financial security, our reputation, our achievements. But once we examine those fears and belief systems, we gain a new level of freedom. I had no idea how much freedom was possible when I started this journey. I always tell people: there’s so much more potential inside of you than you realize.

I love that you help people take small steps because, when you feel trapped, even tiny actions can make a huge difference. You talk about how tiny experiments help us trust ourselves over others’ criticism. How do they help us prioritize our own insights over external validation?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 34:12
That’s why I call them “tiny experiments” instead of “big experiments.” Confidence comes from proving to yourself that you can make decisions and that good things will happen.

It’s not about taking big risks. A lot of advice online tells people to “just quit their job and go for it,” but that’s not realistic for most. Instead, start small—maybe a new creative project, a new skill outside your current job, or something as simple as trying stand-up comedy at an open mic. By doing something different, seeing that the world doesn’t end, and realizing it might even be fun, you build confidence. Then, you can take bigger steps over time.

Blake Schofield 36:03
That’s powerful. Tiny experiments can be as small as checking email only twice a day.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 36:30
Exactly! Some people start by going to bed at the same time for a week or switching from regular coffee to decaf. These tiny changes teach you about yourself. Unlike habits, which imply lifelong commitment, tiny experiments let you test something before deciding if it works for you.

Blake Schofield 38:03
I love that. It helps people regain self-awareness, which we often lose in our busy lives. Tiny experiments let you explore how something makes you feel without expectations. They empower you to realize you have more agency over your life than you thought.

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 39:23
Yes! I call it “becoming the scientist of your own life.” You form a hypothesis—”What if I tried this?”—collect data, observe the outcome, and learn from it. There’s no failure, only learning.

Blake Schofield 40:10
That’s wonderful. For those who want to learn more, where can they follow you?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 40:25
The best way is to read my book, Tiny Experiments. You can find it wherever books are sold. You can also subscribe to my newsletter at nesslabs.com

Blake Schofield 40:50
Thank you for sharing your passion and knowledge. Now, before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to leave the audience with?

Anne-Laure Le Cunff 41:25
Just a question: What will be your first tiny experiment?

Blake Schofield 41:35
I love that. Knowledge is only useful when applied. So, what will you do with what you’ve learned today? How will you take small steps forward? Thank you again for joining us, and to everyone listening, I appreciate you. Have a wonderful week!